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Topic: DM 102: Revival?!? (Read 300 times) |
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Tarridus
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I know we've had this discussion before but with the revival of NWC and the upcoming release of NWN2, I think its worth revisiting. In the last year, Carlo One's excellent DMFI Module really brought the DM client back into the limelight of the community. Yet it only touched the surface (and very well at that) of what can be done with the DM client. And since that module is geared toward the novice DM, I think there should be a session that provides 'advanced' techniques and additional familiarity with the toolset and commands.
Long ago, the excellent Fleet Street crew had something in this form and recently Arawen has also tried to expand on it but I think the community as a whole is in need of more DMs to bring back the excitement in NWN and subsequently in NWN2. Now I'm not the most experienced DM and there are still current members of this community who know much more than I about DMing but I'm willing to help develop some sort of session (about an hour long or so) geared toward those who want to 'expand' on Carlo One's DMFI 101 module.
It can involve a more soundstage approach of setting up atmosphere, while teaching/discussing topics such as DMFI Tools, Dicerolls, Roleplaying NPCs, etc. The possibilities are endless as different DMs approach storytelling and their campaigns differently.
As I've never attended a prior DM 101/102 before on NWC, I really don't know how those were done in the past but if anyone else would like to help me on this, your more than welcome. I think a 'new' DM 102 should be a collaborative experience just like Multiplayer/New Player 101 is for the player side of things.
So with all this said, is anyone interested in helping me on this. I'd love to hear them and I think new players on NWC and NWN in general would appreciate it if we bring this back.
So thoughts? Ideas? Comments?
Feel free to reply here or PM if your interested.
Thanks 
-Tarridus
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Gulfwulf
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The MP101 class uses a script that the trainers can "read" off of. Do you have something like that or were the classes more spur of the moment in what was said? I think it would help to have soemthing like that to make teaching it easier. Thanks.
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Arawen
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Gulfwulf, Fleet Street's original DM102 class had scripted brief lectures read by widgets, live teaching, class discussion, and hands on practice.
The original DM102 class in early 2003 focused on giving DMs experience with the Fleet Street DMs' game style. The Fleet Street DM group however has not shared this module. Also, one of the Fleet Street DM 102 instructors asked that logs of the Fleet Street DM 102 class not be distributed. Given these circumstances, creating a new course is necessary.
I'd recommend teaching a course live a few times to see what works before building a scripted, widgeted version. Originally, it was the live, interactive aspect of this course that made it work.
Arawen
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Tarridus
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Thanks so much Arawen for the detailed outline and to the others who have shown interest in this. The outline is very helpful and I'm going to go through it and see if I can slim it down a bit to be about 2 hours.
About a year ago, a fellow player (and my mentor DM) Lilivati developed a DM 101/102 module that we never got to test or try out that included a set of small preset areas that allowed the players to 'experiment'. The thoughts are that after the discussion, the DMs/Students get to try out some of which was discussed so I think a short amount of time should be dedicated to this during the second half of the session. It can be akin to what Carlo has done with the ending of DMFI 101.
I've gotten a couple PM from those interested in helping so we can continue to discuss here for what we want to see in the module.
Things to discuss:
- Time to run session? (GMT)
- What parts of Arawen's outline to use? (if not all)
- What type of areas should be used for 'soundstages'?
- How many players do we want to host and do we want to make it application only?
..And a million more -questions/issues to discuss but we'll keep it at that while I get to building something and we'll go from there.
I also agree that the first couple should be done without a widget to get our feet wet. It can easily added but I'm not the best scripter so if anyone is willing to help out with a scripting widget, I'd be most appreciative.
Thanks again everyone.
-Tarridus
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| « Last Edit: on: Mar 19, 2006, 2:00PM » |
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Gulfwulf
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on Mar 19, 2006, 12:17 PM, Arawen wrote:Gulfwulf, Fleet Street's original DM102 class had scripted brief lectures read by widgets, live teaching, class discussion, and hands on practice.
The original DM102 class in early 2003 focused on giving DMs experience with the Fleet Street DMs' game style. The Fleet Street DM group however has not shared this module. Also, one of the Fleet Street DM 102 instructors asked that logs of the Fleet Street DM 102 class not be distributed. Given these circumstances, creating a new course is necessary.
I'd recommend teaching a course live a few times to see what works before building a scripted, widgeted version. Originally, it was the live, interactive aspect of this course that made it work.
Arawen |
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Just curious because the script made it easy to stay on track during the training sessions plus ensure that everything was covered properly. Though I do agree that a live event would be the best way to go at first to help nail down what should be covered when and what should be said.
Tarridus, I'm not the best scripter around here, but I could probably come up with something if you gave me a script to work with. Also, I'd like to sit in on the first session if/when you get it scheduled depending on if I can make it at that time. Thanks.
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Gulfwulf
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Give me an email address, Tarridus, and I'll send you the script Starstuff and Scorpio60 created for the MP101 classes. Basically, we had the DM client running as a window and the script loaded up in notepad, then we could just copy/paste what we wanted to say and elaborate on it as needed. Made the sessions go by quickly while making sure everything was properly covered.
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| « Last Edit: on: Mar 21, 2006, 12:50AM » |
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bv6
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Someone's been reading my mind - I joined NWC two weeks ago with this very question burning in my brain.
I'm not experienced enough to help, but if you build it - I will come.
Maybe you need some guinea-pigs to try it out? (not that I'm in favour of animal testing, you understand!)
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Some (hopefully helpful) comments though:
I think Arawen's right that the best way of learning would be to apprentice to an established DM, but it's going to help any DM team if the newbie has DMFI 102 under their belt to start with.
I think everyone here would agree that much of DMing is a stylistic thing that has to be learned from experience.
It would be unrealistic to expect the course to cover everything from start to finish - it should carry-on where Carlos left-off, but would still only be a beginning in itself - to get people into DMing.
To reinforce the learning process, there needs to be an exercise session at the end of each stage. Running through the entire script and expecting students to remember everything in a single exercise at the end won't work (IMO).
Arawen's script looks fairly long, and with additional exercises might turn-into more of a multi-session thing.
Student DMs could return in later weeks to help coDM the 102 sessions. This might take the pressure off established DMs, and provide newbie DMs with some low-pressure practise (plus get some feedback on their DMing abilities).
You should make it application - I would have thought you would want to know that prospective students have at least attended MP101, or played a few games online, and completed Carlos' DM101?
I have gone through Carlos's mod, and while informative and certainly valuable, it didn't give me any chance to interact with players/DMs, and didn't cover the detailed aspects of dice rolling, skill checks, factions and the various widget and rules systems (DMFI, HBAD etc.)
Therefore DMFI 102 definitely needs to be a live session IMO, although I'm sure liberal scripting will make it easier to run.
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I'm really pleased to see you all trying to revive this community - I'll give it any support I can.
---
bv6
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Gulfwulf
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There are a number of DM friendly modules, like JHR1: The Vethboro Dragon by Vendolin, and Alcohol Annoymous by Dungajin that are meant to be played in a single sessions (usually about 2-3 hours depending on how much rping goes on). TVD can basically run itself, but lends itself to accept DM intervention, while AA requires a DM (there's no NPC conversations, area transistions, etc), but even then, an experienced DM can show trainies how to possess NPCs and the like. I don't think it's so much a question of if it's possible to do this, but more so how to co-ordinate it and get it going properly. I'd like to see it get off of the ground because I think we, as a community, could always use more DMs. And, once you try it, it's hard to go back. 
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bv6
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Good point - I guess it doesn't really have to be a lecture class?
I would be happy just to log-onto one of those modules and do a run-through with an experienced DM.
Maybe the two different styles of session could be run in tandem?
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bv6
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Tarridus
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on Mar 21, 2006, 12:43 AM, Gulfwulf wrote:| Give me an email address, Tarridus, and I'll send you the script Starstuff and Scorpio60 created for the MP101 classes. Basically, we had the DM client running as a window and the script loaded up in notepad, then we could just copy/paste what we wanted to say and elaborate on it as needed. Made the sessions go by quickly while making sure everything was properly covered. |
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Hah! I didn't think it was that easy in fact but thats a good idea actually. We could probably do something like that, as its actually something I hadn't even considered back when J'dai, Lilivati, and I were discussing how to run a MP101.
Also, good points all around bv8. A while back, when Fleetstreet still ran the DM 101/102 sessions, NWC used to give out DM 101 certifications after the players/dms ran their first module/one-shot and informed the admins. You can still see the icons on some of the current DMs (ie Lazybones, FalseProphet, etc.) profiles. Perhaps if once we get this going, we can bring back this 'snazzy' feature.
I've looked over the outline again, and I've thought about the role of the DMFI tools and in my opinion, these tools should get its own block of time. When I was learning to DM, figuring out which tool did what was the longest part of the whole process. My thoughts are that we run this session for 2 hours and then devote each half hour to a different focus.
IE:
1st half hour - Advanced Basics (Pregame/Toolset/etc)
2nd half hour - DMFI
3rd half hour - Storytelling (Roleplaying/NPCs/etc.)
4th half hour - Soundstage (Interaction/Examples)
These are just ideas and I think they follow somewhat with Arawen's outline and can be expanded upon. But yes, I do wholeheartedly agree that it should be less a lecture and more interactive by letting the players-dms set up some scenarios and perhaps the 'mentors' can act as the players? Does that all make sense?
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gonesailing
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If ya'll are serious about reinvigorating the DM training courses it might be interesting to expand the offerings and vary them so that not only can you train up new DMs, you can offer something to experienced DMs as well.
DM 102 as stated is a good idea, but I agree that condensing it might be in order. However you don't want to neglect a good education.
Perhaps a expanded class offering in the form of "Upper Level Seminars". Just as an example
DM 201 - "101 things to do with my Widget" Practice/Play and Exploration of the DMFI Wand and widget package
DM 202 - "CR,EL, and other goofy letters" Balancing encounters in D&D 3.0/3.5
DM 203 - "Tripping the light fantastic" Visual imagery in NWN games
DM 204 - "What is chewing on my leg?" Using scripting and custom content to create unusual creatures
DM 205 - "Yawn! I need some sleep" Resting, eating and its importance to game balance
DM 206 - "Talk, Talk, Talk, all we do is talk" Roleplaying NPCs for effect
I think you can see what I am getting at.
Short, focused seminar-type courses would have a lot to offer both new and experienced DMs. In a setting that I am imagining the "Facilitators" would probably learn as much as the "Students"
The length could likely be scheduled for 1 hour. Some courses might be best done in IRC.
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gonesailing
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I agree that scheduling might be difficult (Isn't it always).
This is just an idea to pick your brains with. Hardly a fully formed proposal, but with a proper "Lesson Plan", anyone can host a seminar-type course. I have given many of them. Oftentimes on subjects I had little or no knowledge of.
In that sort of setting information is presented to spark discussion. The "Lesson Plan" would include concrete goals that the session should cover. For example
Today our subject is the DMFI Wand and widget package. At the end of the session we will be able to:
- Identify each wand/widget and its main function
- Explore lesser known features of the package
- Discuss installation and customization issues
When we finish this we will have a short period to practice our new skills |
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The main work is the lesson plan. The main challenges for the facilitator(s) are to keep discussion moving ahead on topic and to familiarize themselves with the lesson plan.
My brain is partially fried as it is the end of my workday or I would elaborate more. I am sure we have some education professionals in the crowd who can fill in the gaps, or correct my mistakes.
I agree that recognition of some sort is "a good thing" but hardly necessary. Also, in my opinion the DM101 badges that were given out seemed to spark more than one contraversy and seemed to be an adminstrative hassle to those that volunteered their time to manage/mantain the list. That said I am personally in favor of something of that kind happening again. I just want to bring it up so if it is done it is kept in mind.
Edit: Before I loose this train of thought...
In my fevered imagination, I wouldn't see these seminars offered on a "regular" basis anyway. Advanced level things like these would be less often found. Perhaps when someone sees an interest on the Forum and is interested they could host a session. For example if tons of DMFI wand questions come up an upswelling of support for these things would be there. Certainly an effort should be made during the NWCons and other events.
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| « Last Edit: on: Mar 21, 2006, 2:08PM » |
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bv6
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I agree - I like that style of format more:
explain, practise, discuss, move-on
I think this approach will cement itself in people's heads more.
IMO you would also be able to fit several of these 'modular sections' into a two-hour session.
You could also choose a shortlist of sections to use within each session (mix-n-match style) to correspond with the needs and skill-level of the particular students involved?
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bv6
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