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Topic: DM 102: Revival?!? (Read 301 times) |
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LIONofHUME
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I like all the suggestions made here, it will be difficult but fun to see how a more advanced class will be planned and ran. I’m sure there can be more then one approach that will work as far as setting, topics and duration are concerned. But for me the DM 102 class should be centered on theses things. Organization and Consistency, Story, Plot and Flow, Improvisation, Wrap-Up.
This is not a detailed plan just my thoughts as of right now.
We will be dealing with experienced DM’s and not first timers, so each will posses different levels of experience, and each could possibly approach different situations with different solutions. So concentrating on set curriculum maybe counter productive whereas opening the course up to a more free form experimentation, might work better. What I mean is we set the stage and allow the students to gives us an answer, that answer is then critiqued by everyone else. That I believe can have a compounded effect and give everyone attending a broader range of ideas for approaching the same situation.
I also believe that most of this course should be done without the DMFI wands, because a DM should be able and comfortable running a session without them. Some modules and PW’s don’t incorporate them and using the console commands should be something they know how to use, and be proficient with. The DMFI package can have an entire three hour class devoted to it exclusively.
Many points can be touched on within each topic listed above. But first to organize the actual class session you need to decide on.
1. Who will host and what module to use for hosting. I’d recommend a strong host and a light mod since we will be possessing NPC, creating objects and critters, displaying FX, and whatever else that may be needed. All that can create some lag and nobody wants that.
2. Since everyone’s participating via DM client, a set of guidelines to govern the session. All students should follow these rules.
a. Torch in the air to speak
b. Stay with the instructors, don’t do it until instructed.
c. …More?….
3. Divide the course up into equal parts so each topic gets a fair time slot. Some might require more then others; it’s just difficult for me to tell which one will need more then the other at this point.
4. …More?…
We all know that a GM’s job is never done and that every DM should expect to be surprised once in awhile. After all you are just one mind, the players are many. They might have a lot more experience than you, especially combined. So it’s of paramount importance to you to be as well organized as you can. Of course you can never be prepared for everything but with the help of this course and your continued experience DMing sessions, you will be able to overcome those surprises more quickly and confidently. While making your games the best they can be for your players.
I’ll finish up on my four point topics later this evening, got to go eat now.
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LIONofHUME
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on Mar 19, 2006, 1:59 PM, Tarridus wrote:
Things to discuss:
- Time to run session? (GMT)
- What parts of Arawen's outline to use? (if not all)
- What type of areas should be used for 'soundstages'?
- How many players do we want to host and do we want to make it application only?
-Tarridus |
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Q: Time to run session? (GMT)
A: Since I've never run an educational session that will most likely be attended by verious time zones, I wouldn't have a clue.
Q: What parts of Arawen's outline to use? (if not all)
A: The good parts? 
Q: What type of areas should be used for 'soundstages'?
A: Rural for the most part, although NPC's of different races will behave, speak and think differently from different geographical areas, the rural areas of the pubs, merchants, temples and royalty should be sufficient in getting the points across.
Q: How many players do we want to host and do we want to make it application only?
A: Application definitely, number...?
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Gulfwulf
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Q: Time to run session? (GMT)
A: Since I've never run an educational session that will most likely be attended by verious time zones, I wouldn't have a clue. |
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When I helped run the MP101 sessions, we usually did so around 1 PM EST (6PM GMT) on either Saturday or Sunday.
Q: What parts of Arawen's outline to use? (if not all)
A: The good parts? |
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I think they all should be used, but not necessarily in the same session.
Q: What type of areas should be used for 'soundstages'?
A: Rural for the most part, although NPC's of different races will behave, speak and think differently from different geographical areas, the rural areas of the pubs, merchants, temples and royalty should be sufficient in getting the points across. |
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Because mods have a mixture of different areas, the training mod should as well, but only have the most prominent, like the rural, city interior/exterior, etc. Leave the Underdark, Beholder caves, and the like out for now.
Q: How many players do we want to host and do we want to make it application only?
A: Application definitely, number...? |
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Deffinantly application because it'll be a DM only game with no players. As to number, more than six can get chaotic, though I think 4 would be a nice number. It'll depend on how many "teachers" there are, say 2 or 3 per teacher.
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Tarridus
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on Mar 21, 2006, 11:03 PM, LIONofHUME wrote:| I also believe that most of this course should be done without the DMFI wands, because a DM should be able and comfortable running a session without them. Some modules and PW’s don’t incorporate them and using the console commands should be something they know how to use, and be proficient with. The DMFI package can have an entire three hour class devoted to it exclusively. |
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I truthfully don't know ANY of the console commands 
And yet I disagree with this point only because MANY things cannot be done with the client itself (and thus are we only now getting some of the normal functions of DMFI in the toolset with the new patch). Perhaps some of the console functions can do some of what the tools do but the simple act of destroying an item cannot be done with the client (as far as I know). But hey, I could be wrong with my previous statements as there are many functions I have yet to use in the default client as opposed to adding the tools.
The biggest conflict I see us facing with running this session is finding a fine line between interaction and lecture. Many of the things we could use in the outline can be discussed but cannot be properly introduced within the session itself. These involve the planning aspects and anything that needs to be done with the toolset. They can be mentioned of course but I think a lot of what we can agree upon is the 'art' of DMing is tied with experience and feeling your way through the client to tell the kind of story you would like to portray. One is no doubt tied with the other so I agree with bv8 and gonesailing about discussing, and then applying approach to the session itself.
But Great Ideas all around everyone and keep them coming. This was just my two cents on this small point among many. I'm willing to build whatever we need although creating an outline might be a bit more tricky. I think once we get a mutual agreement on what should be there and what shouldn't, we'll be able to really get our hands dirty with this.
And welcome back gonesailing. I recognize your SN from back when I first joined in 2003. Great to see you back and contributing among the DM hordes
-Tarr
EDIT: Hmm..a good idea gonesailing..
Perhaps we can schedule the sessions to focus on certain topics. DMFI for one, Roleplaying for another?...
What does everyone think?
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| « Last Edit: on: Mar 22, 2006, 12:37AM » |
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Gulfwulf
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Perhaps we can schedule the sessions to focus on certain topics. DMFI for one, Roleplaying for another?...
What does everyone think? |
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Because of the number of topics and the time it would take to properly explore them, I think this is a good idea. Also, it'll allow people to pick and choose the topic(s) they're most interested in learing more about. That way, they wouldn't have to sit through a topic there weren't interested in.
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Carlo One
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There have been a lot of good thoughts and ideas tossed around on what would be needed to take the next step in DM training. I'll offer my own point of view on the topic, based on having thought about the concept for some time now, as well as the practical experience of running several dozen in-game seminars over the years.
Like most NWC DMs of a certain era, I got my training start in a Fleet Street DM 101 course, back in Fall 2002. To get your certification, you were required to run a game afterwards, so it was similar to a throw-you-in-the-pool experience. This worked well enough in practice, as long as you put some preparation into the first module session and weren't afraid to make at least a few (inevitable) minor mistakes. Players are very forgiving if you give them a good adventure, aren't a jerk, and don't bung things up completely.
One interesting observation is that the content of DM 101 (around an hour, sometimes cut shorter) was significantly less than what is included in the DMFI 101 module. DMFI 101 was created to fill the basic training gap created by the departure of Fleet Street and, with the exception of the player commands (give/take XP/gold, etc.) does give a beginning DM all the tools needed to start running games, including suggested starter modules. There's no better way to learn DMing than by doing, really. It's sort of like speaking a foreign language: classroom preparation is great, but you really have to go use it yourself to get proficient and enjoy it.
Given limited time and resources, the DMFI never put together either a live or scripted DM 102 module. Live courses of this type require a significant commitment of people and time to design and run them, which is why I decided to do DMFI 101 as a scripted module. For example, DMFI 101 has over 6,700 downloads; something equivalent with 6 people per class would have required (say) 4,000 hours of in-game sessions.
As has been pointed out in previous posts, there are a host of different courses that could be run and a lot of content that could be included in each. Leaving aside the rest of the possibilities, what I've seen the most demand for in a DM 102 course, based on various posts over time, are three things: 1) Storytelling techniques, 2) Playing NPCs effectively, and 3) More on DMFI wands.
There is a crushing amount of literature on DMing in D&D out there which can be read on people's own time, including a set of DMFI articles that address (in my opinion) some of the most important NWN DMing topics: campaign DMing, persistent world DMing, and "out-of-engine" DMing techniques. To my mind, therefore, any in-game seminar should focus on things that can only be demonstrated in-game, either in a teaching or practice mode.
If I were to work on a DMFI 102, I would structure it as a walkthrough of a starter module, much like DMFI 101 is (if you look at it closely enough.) It would take DMs and "players" through pre-game orientation and setup, starting the adventure, main and side quests, and the conclusion. Storytelling techniques, NPC possession, and DMFI wands use would be incorporated in all phases. I would also focus on the most common and effective techniques at each stage, so people come out knowing and, more importantly, being able to use five (say) different techniques in each area, rather than trying to remember 50 useful things, which won't realistically happen. A three-hour session would be about the limit for attention span and for consistent attendance without interruptions (kids, phone calls, other appointments, etc.)
I think the above structure would be eminently doable with relatively few contributing DMs. I also respectfully challenge the notion that this sort of thing couldn't be accomplished in a scripted module, although I do think a well-run live session would be superior.
Just want to end my thoughts here by saying thanks to all who have posted or read this topic for renewing interest in DM training, something for which there continues to be significant demand.
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| « Last Edit: on: Mar 22, 2006, 3:11AM » |
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Von Stalhein
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Looking back over this thread, my eyes kept falling on the little list of extra things gonesailing wrote. Personally, many of those are things that I would find very helpful - particularly when designing my own adventures.
I am, for instance, fairly confident in using the DMFI tools and the DM client - through practice. I am also hopefully quite good at roleplaying NPCs. However, balancing encounters - Gods help me; using visuals properly and creating atmosphere - tips anyone?
What caught my eye was that many of those things could be done in written format. How -do- you create proper balanced encounters that challenge the players? There is a brief section on this in Lazybone's DM guide, but for me it wasn't nearly enough and balancing encounters - even in pre-made mods - gives me a headache.
On the other hand, reserve me a place for whatever does get done 
EDIT: Woops, corrected the DM guide's author to Lazybones, not Gruush - he did the MP guide.
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| « Last Edit: on: Mar 28, 2006, 5:00PM » |
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bv6
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And on the flip side of the coin - I'm keen to get more technical help.
I think this underlines the need for two streams - one Technical and one Aesthetic.
I like your other suggestion Von S -
You could certainly provide a lot of information in documentation to be read pre-class (this is an advanced class after all).
This would provide more time online to ask questions and get supervised, hands-on practise.
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Gulfwulf
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*shrugs* The discussions never really went anywhere and I guess everybody's focusing on NWN2. Maybe there will be a revival? Who knows?
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Carlo One
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I plan on looking at doing some form of a DMFI 102 course after NWN2 comes out and we get the new DM 101 module released. Anybody else wants to take on the idea for additional NWN DM training in the meantime, I'd be happy to help support it via the DMFI.
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Tarridus
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*cursed upcoming campaign module*
Limited amount of time to play/build on NWN has only allowed me to really work on my upcoming campaign so this thread has almost been forgotten and I apologize for that.
Upon thinking about it some more, I think the idea of doing seperate sessions focusing on many things on Arawen's outline would be the best course of action on NWC. This will allow DMs to run a DM102 course on just about any topic concerning the client and NWN in general.
One of the first I'd like to focus on is the DMFI tools using the 1.08a base. Since each tool could take time to explain this would be a good jumping off point as I could not see myself running a campaign without them. I'm going to focus on this more in the coming weeks and hopefully have a first session run in June sometime. Anyone else willing to help can get in touch with me if they'd like to assist.
Thanks.
-Tarridus
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| « Last Edit: on: May 2, 2006, 9:35PM » |
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