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Topic: No DM Client At Release (Read 760 times) |
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LIONofHUME
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Well this news does indeed suck...but since the Obsidian team came from Black Isle and Blizzard back grounds what should we have expected. I hope the narrowed focus helps the projects over-all quality. I'm staying optimistic.
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Kalia D'Malen
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A bit of clarification from Patrick Mills:
After reading (ok, glancing) over a lot of the stuff here, I'd like to point out a few things.
Firstly, no one needs a DM client to test things. We use the exact same tools that we are putting in the box. We do not use a DM client to test things.
Simply keeping the NWN1 DM client intact and "porting" it is just unreasonable and doesn't really make sense. NWN2 is not the same game as NWN1. Even if we change no functionality it's not like we can just merge the two code-bases, hit compile, and expect magic to happen.
None of us like that the DM client won't be available. I can't comment on time-frame because I don't know anything about it.
The good news is, since none of the developers here (or the testers or anyone else) have been using a DM client to test things, many of the same features of a DM client are available through script via the console.
For those who like to accuse Obsidian or Atari of lying. I've never seen anyone here lie to the community. Things get said that wind up not to be correct or that later change (who knows, maybe this post contains something that will one day be retracted?) Everyone here speaks to the best of their knowledge. At one time horses were a sure thing, we'd never cut those! But development is a rocky road and things change, and at some point someone has to look at what we have and say "No, we're not going to have horses, this just doesn't work."
So, when you hear devs speak, understand that they are talking about what they want, what they are planning on, how things stand at that moment when they say it. |
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Kalia D'Malen
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The devs have spoken:
JE Sawyer on Atari's who's to blame:
| Guys, there are plenty of issues over which I would gleefully blame the publisher. This is not one of them. We (Obsidian) defined the overall scope of the game and the fact that the DM client got pushed out is our responsibility. |
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Feargus Urquhart confirms it WILL be in:
There will be a DM client, but as of tonight we can not tell you what of it, if any, will be in the box and what will be a patch.
Again, there will be a DM client for NWN2.
I'm really not sure how to be anymore clear than that. |
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And another Urquhart quote:
Not to repeat what I said in the other topic about this, but I did want to say here that we understand the necessity and the need for a DM Client. However, as of tonight, we do not have a specific plan as to what of the DM Client we can provide in the box at ship and what will be provided as a patch.
To be clear, since things can be interpreted many different ways, there will be a DM Client for NWN2. We want it to have all the functionality as the current NWN1. I say want in that sentance, because I'm at E3, it's almost 11pm and I hadn't planned on talking about it today.
We are going to be putting plans together in the next couple of weeks having to do with the DM Client. When we have those plans we will explain them in detail to everyone. Please don't think that means one of the plans is that there will be no DM Client - it doesn't mean that at all.
All that I can ask at this point is to please bear with us.[ |
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Last one:
On the subject of the DM client I did want to say a couple of things:
1) We at Obsidian know the importance of the DM client as it relates to the running of PWs. We want PWs to exist for NWN2, so we need to support the DM client.
2) We are going to be talking over the next couple of weeks to see what we will have at launch and when we will have a more final roadmap when it comes to the complete DM Client.
I do apologize for this being the way the information got to all of you about the DM Client, it's not what we intended. I was planning to have us make an announcement in the next few weeks about it, after we had gotten some more of our planning done. |
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'Nuff said. Thanks Obsidian for passing out paper bags so everyone can breathe normally again. 
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| « Last Edit: on: May 12, 2006, 12:27PM » |
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tinbender
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Sounds to me like someone saw all the backlash and went uh oh time for some spin control. I do not DM but I will not buy the game until the DM client is released. Heck the only reason I still play NWN is because of the campaigns and DM ran games.
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Lazybones
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There's a poll up at the Vault on the impact of the DM Client on the release. Of 623 votes so far, 410 put the DMC as "very important" or "important", and over 1/3 of the voters said that they would not buy the game without the Client included.
I hope Obsidian has learned from this. Don't promise what you cannot deliver. I wish they'd been more like Bioware, which has a firm commitment to not releasing games until they are finished.
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maxxis
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hrm. perhaps we see no reason to buy the game without DM client. But as Bioware confirmed "we" here is only a very small minority. So if the DM client wont be released I don’t think they will lose sales critically.
Heck, if no dm client I proly will just dl it and play SPC, then delete it…
I wonder if this will put many PWs onhold ...
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| « Last Edit: on: May 12, 2006, 2:29PM » |
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Slare
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Yeah, way to kick your biggest supporters in the nads there, Obsidian. All I can say is if the DM client is delayed for any significant amount of time, it damn well better have a more complete featureset than the NWN1 client. Even then its not going to make up for the loss of potential fanbase by it not being there at release.
I too have put this game purchase on hold. And here I was, all excited and compiling ideas for my Outlandish Tales followup. There is no way in hell I can possibly run a decent game with a damned command line interface.
And additionally, if there is no special DM client, yet all these "DM-like" commands are accessable within player client...how can anyone expect to run a good game when everyone has god powers?
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Drengist
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I was totally surprised when I read about the Client not being included. I just stumbled over the news, while being bored at work.
Just a couple of days ago I reinstalled NWN to play the campaign again - after more than three years away from NWN and NWC. Now thinking of NWN 2 without the Client - useless and deeply disappointing.
I HOPE Obsidian knows that this news will have a great impact on the sales of the game. They are pretending, that they will release it later. But my stomach says: It wont come, or they will just rush it out and wont support it for long. Coming out with the news now, three months before release, is odd as well.
And I was already writing a story on my NWN-2-Campaign. I was so looking foward to DM again and maybe meet some of the old NWC-friends again ...
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| « Last Edit: on: May 12, 2006, 3:23PM » |
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Etarnon
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I said as much many months ago:
"I'm not holding my breath on NWN2."
NWN2 might as well be vaporware.
Definitely 100% gonna stay with NWN now, rather than 95%.
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| « Last Edit: on: May 12, 2006, 3:52PM » |
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Poetic Colossus
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Sheesh!
Stop the madness!
I was just as bummed as many of you are, depsite the fact that I worked at Obsid - but this is nuts and not constructive. Undoubtedly, this news hits NWC below the belt, but some of us are starting to sound like indignant children.
Yes, I realize that your international smash hit, 1500 player-base "World of Eternal Fairy Princesses" has been delayed for a bit but there WILL be a DM client and once again you'll be able to torture quivering mortals at your convenience.
Nobody will stop you from your civil protest of not buying the game until there's a DM Client - but others will get the game, enjoy the SP and use the toolset (which I repeat, is INCREDIBLE) to get a head start in building their worlds and campaigns.
Once the DM Client is delivered, they'll be able to jump right back in and continue what they love doing.
El Presidente (Feargus) and the others do care about the fans - after 4 full days of interviews, meetings, conferences, etc etc at E3, they were still posting responses at midnight to allay concerns about the DM Client.
We're good. There will be a DM Client.
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Lilivati
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I will be purchasing NWN2 at release, because I did get some enjoyment out of the official campaigns, I like diddling around with toolsets, and plain old common curiosity about a game that's been talked up quite a bit in this community. So far it looks like it will, at the least, be much more visually appealing than NWN- now all I can hope is that it will actually run on my junkpile of a computer. *grins*
That said, I doubt NWN2 will be more than a diversion from other games for me until the DM client is released. I have faith that it will be released, and I can hope it won't have many of the initial shortcomings that plagued NWN's DM client. I'm naturally disappointed about this announcement, but it's not the end of the world. I still think this community will see an influx of NWN2 players, DM client or no, given the strong faction of PW and non-DM'd game players here.
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Poetic Colossus
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on May 12, 2006, 5:10 PM, Lilivati wrote:| I still think this community will see an influx of NWN2 players, DM client or no, given the strong faction of PW and non-DM'd game players here. |
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Ding!
Very true - while scripted NPC's are a far cry from a talented DM, people will still be able to play multiplayer through NWN 2's SP campaign or via multiplayer mods - and we can still use NWC to set that up.
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Dungeon_Llama
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Thanks to Kalia and Poetic for the links and reassurances respectively. I for one was only wanting the reassurance that Obsidian was in fact including the client. I don't like the delay, but I can live with it. I had every intention of playing the SP before anyway and it will give time to get used to the toolset.
In fairness to those that reacted very strongly and angrily before the "official word" you can't really blame them. It was an Obsidian employee that started the initial reaction. He could have been clear in his answer (or even his subsequent answers) about the fact that a DM client would be added, just delayed. Yes we all make mistakes it happens, but the fans aren't busy at E3, they are busy salivating over all the news coming their way and they got a smack between the eyes that no one was expecting. The DM client is not only important to PWs. It's vital to this site as well. And honestly we can say it would have been better to wait for the official response rather than to react, but then there is the quandry. If no one had responded would they have been so quick about reassuring us that we had nothing to worry about or would we have waited and waited and waited? I think they needed to know how important this was to us and we didn't know if they actually knew that or not. Mr Mill's responses and such gave me the impression he thought it was a minor thing. We fans can't know what's going on behind closed doors and unfortunately we've all been burned before. We had no assurances until the posts above. Anyway, I think things will settle down now. I know you are wanting to defend Obs as you work there, but I think the community outcry to this was understandable.
I'm thankful to Fearghus (sp?) for clearing the air and I am willing to trust what he says. He says it will be in and that's good enough for me. I personally only wanted that promise, which I think is all most people responding to this wanted. I do hope that since it will be delayed they'll add something to it for the trouble and not just give us what we had already...but I'm glad it is going to be there hopefully in a decent amount of time. Gamers are a passionate lot when it comes to their games, as we all know. I'm glad Obsidian cares about their fans, but as with most people posting talk is cheap. We've heard promises from many developers over years of gaming and some we knew we could trust other were up in the air. I'll give Obs a chance personally and the game does look amazing. Poetic you said yourself a long time back that Obs saw the value of a DM'd game when you took them through some, so I'm still moving forward on that.
So as you said, we're good and I continue personally to look forward to NWN2
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Tunari
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on May 12, 2006, 5:18 PM, Poetic Colossus wrote:| - while scripted NPC's are a far cry from a talented DM, people will still be able to play multiplayer through NWN 2's SP campaign or via multiplayer mods - and we can still use NWC to set that up. |
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Very true, I still have a whole thread dedicated to Good Non-Dm'd games in the Player Connecton. Lot's of groups playing hosted games with no DM. Imagine there will be plenty new mods like those that will come out after the builders get a hold of the new toolset in NWN2.
I'll be getting the game when it comes out, I did have fun with the SP OC and the expansions. I want to see the new toolset also. Though I have only built basic mods in the current toolset, the screenshots and what I have seen for the new toolset are exciting. It might be inspiring and I'll actually build something other than a simple hack n slash run through. 
But more exciting will be seeing what a capable builder (not me) can do with it. Hopefully there will be plenty of builders who get the game still(even without the client) and come up with some great mods for us to see and play, until the client is released.
Though I do realize even when just hosting, someone needs to go in as a DM occasionally and fix something so they can continue, maybe there will be some sort of temporary workaround for those times through use of widgets/tools. At least for some if the basic probs, player stuck in wrong area etc...one of the players could have a few special tools on them for those instances?
Just trying to look forward to some good points. I could be wrong about tools/widgets, I am not an experienced builder/DM. I don't know if those ideas are plausible and I know it wouldn't be the ideal answer, which is of course a full client.
Just some thoughts on being able to at least build mods with the new toolset and play some MP games.
Tunari 
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| « Last Edit: on: May 12, 2006, 7:41PM » |
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