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Topic: DM Styles threads: (Read 228 times) |
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Elbast
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This Thread is an amalgam of the threads that appeared in the old NWU forum on DM style.
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Elbast
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DM Style: Descriptors
Bigbluepaw:
General question in the same vein as Ochobee's. I was wondering what general approaches were used for descriptors. Specifically, if you have had a chance to go through the MOD prior to the game and have taken notes to really give areas and NPCs life.
As a player, I would usually fill some of my quickslots with custom test messages. My fighter, a former farmer, would have 'Praise the Grain Goddess!' or 'Foehammer, the Lord of Battles, has blessed us!'.
Now with DM avatar and with all the wands, particularly the DMFI voice stuff, I was sure there were some shortcuts. But I haven't figured it out yet.
Thanks for any help in advance. |
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Arawen:
I write up a paragraph describing the backstory, motivations, personality and mannerisms of each important NPC.
Lesser NPCs get more generic roles but I do plan a list conversation topics.
I do most area and battle descriptions on the fly with DM shouts and DM tells for class specific observations.
As for macros, all of my quick slots are taken up with DM tools, custom widgets, combat related macros and creature quickslots, so all of my NPCs are live.
In addition, I do use the DMFI Voice Wand to make multiple NPCs speak at once.
Arawen |
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Elbast:
I have a vaired approach. Sometimes I'll stock up on the detail, but most of the time I like to leave things open to interpretation.
I work with a team of 3 others most of the time, and I like the fact that by and large I can let them bring their visions to the roles and locations, without my needing to supply extensive limitations. Big conversations are planned out, only in the most general sense, to give an idea of what must happen, be said etc, but come the time in game, everything hinges on PC actions and words, and is designed suitably loosely with that in mind. The trust I put in my co-DMs also helps, as even if I'm not in place to run big scenes, I have faith that they will pick up the baton, and excell - as they did for me last Sunday.
The actual text for the conversations is almost exclusively done on the fly - and I have had times when a co-DM has asked me if what I was saying as a major NPC was scripted, when in fact it was all improvised. By and large, I think the ability to react fast and think on the spot helps a bucketload in DMing, giving the impression things are more planned than in fact they turn out.
Small, non plot-centric, conversations take no planning at all, and are the sum total of "how we feel at the time"
I'm a big fan of using shouted descriptions from time to time, when something of atmospheric importance crops up, for example. Feedback from my players at the time suggested the feeling of claustrophobia generated by the information I gave in this form really worked.
I'll also use descriptive triggers, or OnEnter scripts for areas, when I think there's something that should be noticed, but doesn't warrant a big ol' shout. (which by its nature is more noticable).
Tells are another favourite - hinting to one player that something is up.
I have notes and rough maps for the locations and events, but largely this is to orchestrate a twisting, multi-faceted plot, and very little is about specifics. |
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Elbast
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Bigbluepaw:
Great stuff! And one day, hopefully I can do it all!
I am a new to DMing, so on my own, and have little or no scripting experience. Sounds like I need to get ramped up!
Well, just so no one else wastes their time, I'll describe something I tried last night...and didn't work.
I noticed when I possessed NPCs, their quickslots changed to their own and not the DM avatar that I used. Sooo...I was thinking GREAT! I can just go thorugh, possess each NPC in a save game and fill their quickslots with custom text and viola! I can mix those with typed responses.
Well, I found that after I possesed, created a quickslot custom text, unpossessed and repossessed (dance..dance), I found that the custom text quickslot was empty! Terribly disappointing.
So in the end, it sounds like I need to learn these other techniques. Thanks again for all your help! Talk soon. |
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Elbast:
I'd advise.... don't DM solo! The advanages of a partner or team are just simply not acheivable through other methods.
Other than that... try and find some way to build your confidence in ad lib. type stuff, as single line phrases said or used often quikly become stale and while mannerisms that are clearly defined and identifiable as character specific are good, repetitive usage or stale descriptors will start to put players off after a while.
Practice and confidence are the key to success.
It's a DMs job to believe in his own abilities, otherwise uncertainty will show through, and affect everyone's enjoyment in the long run. Believe in yourself, and the players will believe in you, and half the time, they don't notice mistakes or inconsistency (say if you make the mistake of contradicting yourself in ad lib conversation) and the other half, you can be quick enough on your feet to counter them!
Good luck, and go knock 'em dead! |
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Bigbluepaw:
Good points all.
I'm not that worried about typing it all live, I was just looking for any automation tips. I completely agree with your points about confidence and not catching ad-lib mistakes.
I'm specifically DMing solo to groups of new players so I can purposefully learn the DMFI wands and DM clients. Kinda kill two birds with one stone.
Talk later. |
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Ochobee
on 09. Oct 2003 at 14:09, Bigbluepaw wrote:I noticed when I possessed NPCs, their quickslots changed to their own and not the DM avatar that I used. Sooo...I was thinking GREAT! I can just go thorugh, possess each NPC in a save game and fill their quickslots with custom text and viola! I can mix those with typed responses.
Well, I found that after I possesed, created a quickslot custom text, unpossessed and repossessed (dance..dance), I found that the custom text quickslot was empty! Terribly disappointing. |
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Just revisiting this thread (and forum)...
Is the above true? I haven't tried it myself yet, but if so it kind of spoils an idea I had for a module I am working on. I was hoping to populate the quickslots of an NPC with different parts of a ritual (NPC is high priest) so that I could have the NPC easily intone the ritual while I have my attention elsewhere. This lets me also control the pace of the speech and abruptly stop it as needed.
I'm thinking now that maybe I would be better off building a custom wand or something to fire a script to have the NPC speak each part of the ritual... It would have the added benefit of allowing me to be in the DM avatar for the sequence, but with the drawback of having to figure out how to do it...
Thoughts? Comments? Derisive laughter? |
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Elbast
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Ochobee:
How active are you, as a DM, during the running of the module? What I mean by this is the level of activity in setting up creatures, possessing creatures, adding descriptive text to areas (i.e, "This room is dark and scaaaarry" adding atmosphere in the way of sound and or visual effects, etc...
On my latest run through LB's Eth'barat module I tried to focus my efforts on using the sound and FX wands more to help make the shrine (the main focus of the module) more of a living, breathing thing. I often found myself lying in wait for the players to spring a particular event on them but I kept getting the nagging feeling that I should be doing more...
Like my other questions, I expect each DM is going to have his or her own preference. From my limited experience (a whopping 2 games under my belt as DM) I have found that while I would like to be everywhere at once it just is not possible. Obviously the amount of scripting in each module will help determine how much needs to be done by the DM, but what parts of the overall job do you feel are the most important ones to focus on? |
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Lazybones:
The trick is to know when not to intervene.
A lot of times, if you've done a lot of preparation, or if you're running a module with lots of scripting (like Eth'barat), you won't have to do a lot. I try and do things like sending individual tells, giving small RP awards using the DMFI wand, and doing FX as you noted. There's also the "set piece" events like possessing NPCs and preparing encounters, where the DM's role is more central.
My opinion is that the best DMs are the ones whose presence in the game is completely invisible to the players. |
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Rofelli:
The things that are scripted in my modules are almost exclusively descriptive text triggers. That's most of it right there, and those have been, so far, very few.
I possess all of the NPCs that I can. There are a few, though, that are minor NPCs that have conversation linked to them...merchants, a bard in one of my cities, some clerics in a minor temple who consider themselves too busy to deal with nosy PCs...little things like that. The major NPCs never have a conversation. Always possessed.
As for sounds and visual FX, I use the DMFI wands almost exclusively. Most of the atmosphere is pre-built in the module (I think I spend WAY too much time on lighting and sound, but they're my favorite part of building). The wands help add things as needed or as appropriate. And, of course, the visual wand is a necessity for a nifty DM appear/disappear at the beginning/end of the module.
Creatures? Most of the enemies are pre-made, already in the area. Understand, the players, in my current campaign, have had, I think, 2-3 fights over the past 2 months...very few enemies. Fights happen for a specific reason, and, often, the people you end up fighting aren't initially hostile; they just become that way during the course of the story. |
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Arawen:
I usally DM as part of a three DM team in a homemade campaign. Our team runs a soundstage campaign game with very little scripting.
We build the game as a series of weekly one shot mods and prepare DM notes beforehand about the main plot points, NPCs, and events.
Within the campaign, my current role is lead DM. During a game, all three DMs are very active. We are in constant conversation over voice chat, as we improvise scenes, coordinate atmosphere, give tells, bring in NPCs, place encounters, or discuss story ideas.
Castellar DMs possess all NPCs, shout atmospheric descriptions, do individual tells, hand place encounters, and tweak fights on the fly. We use DMFI tools, a few custom gadgets, and the shaper wand.
Placed encounters and text triggers tend to be less flexible, though we do use them for places where the PCs might go through quickly enough that automation is warranted. I find myself preferring manual encounters more and more, lately because now that we all have a feel for how combat challenge works.
Overall I feel that multi-DM run games can create a world that seems vibrant and alive without much scripting. Early on, we automated much more, but it's faster and simpler just to run everything as DMs. Reducing automation also seems easier on CPU and bandwidth, an important consideration for both our server and our dialup players.
The campaign is now moving towards a more building light approach where we build even less in advance and drop more in on the fly.
Since we evolve the weekly campaign mod around our players' roleplay, it's easier to keep the future games as open as possible.
I'd say the best way to focus one's DMing is do what you most enjoy, then find or build a module that helps you play in your preferred style.
Arawen |
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Elbast
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Hahns Shin:
Honestly, this is very much dependent on DM style and module preference. In a well-fleshed out area, like a familiar village or portions of a persistent world, the focus is less on building set-pieces and more on fleshing out characters, "marks", and challenges. In a poorly-fleshed out area, soundstaging can make an 8x8 grid of bare forest come alive as a brownie village (been there, done that, bought the T-shirt), but this takes much in-game prep time, possibly time that a DM/builder does not have. In general, it is always YMMV... expert builders can create the majority of a stage in a much shorter time than it takes to build it from scratch through the Creator (and not limited by the "only faces east" idiosyncracy), and the modifications are permanent. However, there are some things that are much easier to do within the game, like building a quick camp of 8 placeables, impromptu.
Scripting is another matter entirely. Scripting takes a LOT of work and preparation... so if you script something, make it count. Don't script a scene that you'll only use once... I'd rather script the elements of the scene and reuse those elements later (for example, a "swing on the chandelier" script would be a modified rope jump script that I can reuse). I script things that make my life easier in-game. Instead of manually building random guards by dragging individuals from the creator and equipping them, I have a widget that creates a guard, fully armed and armored with random stats, appearance, and weapons. This saves me a lot of time in game, freeing me to do more important things such as NPC possession. Of course, I benefit from having an extensive knowledge of NWScript, so scripting brand new mechanics and temporary widgets is a rather trivial activity for me. With scripting comes great power but also a steep learning curve, and it is not for everyone. I'm glad I am able to contribute to the community as a whole by providing them with the tools that I use through the DMFI... it takes much of the pain out of implementing DM tools through scripting.
The key is that there are always more than one way to solve any given situation as a DM. You can script something before hand, giving you "fire-and-forget" ease of use, at the cost of some reactivity (scripting is can be flexible, as shown by the DMFI tools...), you can build things in the toolset before hand at the cost of having "static" setpieces and actors, or you can move things on the fly, which is limited by the skill of the DM and personal supervision.
As for specifics:
1) I use the DMFI Voice Widget and the .set .command to control speech for multiple NPCs. Chain possessing can be a major pain in the butt, so I usually take 30 seconds to prep a few .set commands that I need. It allows me to be at two (or three or ten) places at once.
2) I use the DMFI Voice Wand in Loiter Mode for flavor text. This way, the players can get the flavor text that they need for an area while I'm off doing something else like quickly prepping a trap or creating an encounter.
3) To quickly adjust the level of encounters, I use spell-buffs/curses. You can also use stat-adjusting console commands.
4) My favorite activity is possessing NPCs and interacting with the PCs through conversation. Thus, most of my focus is maximizing possession time and minimizing in-game prep time. This is certainly personal preference and it varies day by day. Some days, I'm just WAY too lazy to open the toolset. Others, I insist on taking 30 minutes before game time to make last minute changes before loading the module up.
5) I use the general rule "Do before show and show before tell". In other words, actively do things to your PCs like drop traps in front of them or monsters or placeables or cast spells on them. Keep them on their toes. If you can't find an appropriate thing to "do", use the FX wands or spells to "show" them what is happening. This is less active from the PC's point of view, but sometimes necessary. Your last option is to use a tell or flavor text to "tell" them what is happening. Basically, most active option first, if possible.
6) "Hurry up and wait" You can have the most epic adventure planned for the party, but they can spend the entire session in the local bar throwing darts and chugging regional alcoholic beverages. In this case, that is the game that the PCs want to play, the social game, so let them play it. The dragonslaying can occur next week.
7) I tend to use scripting in two ways: Reactive scripting and power scripting. The best example of reactive scripting is the lowly trap. You step on a trap, it zaps you. Basically, you set things up to respond interactively to the PCs... if they press a button, something happens. Power scripting increases the power of a DM or players and modifies their influence on the world in some way. The entire DMFI package, for example.
Hrm, this is turning into a ramble, so I'll stop for now. |
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whistler:
(on "6)" from Hahnsoo's list)
Probably the most important thing in DMing campaigns.. know when to save those tricks up your sleeves for next week. I like to think up fuzzy plots... basically, characters that I think "connect" with the PCs in a certain way, and a general idea of how they meet and what they are there for..
Then its just a matter of seeing what happened last week and tying it in to something else next week. |
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Lazybones:
| Conversely, you also need to know when to prod the game along. Sure, if everyone's into playing chatroom that's one thing, but it's rare to find a group where all your players are that into just the RP aspect. A few may even go along, or seem to, but you'll see it in your comments what people really thought of the session if it lags too much. |
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Elbast
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Elbast:
Personally I'm active active active.
All NPCs, however inconsequential, are possessed, I use visual FX and sound FX constantly, and am constantly active either shouting descriptions, sending tells, or co-ordinating events with co-DMs on the DM channel (not a voice-com user... not yet at least).
There are always periods of inactivity, and they are often welcome chances to just sit back and watch the players play out a scene, but generally I will be busy throughout sessions.
That said... I co-DM another game, and there I'm often very inactive, save for the odd combat posession, or NPC posession for non plot-related conversations... In the end, as stated above by others, the mod concerned is a big factor.
For me, I've found that shouted descriptions, and tells add a hell of a lot in terms of atmosphere and have helped me - in conjunction with the various FX wands - to really create an environment that was enough to send one PC mad... To me the atmosphere is a big thing, and while lighting and a good build helps, the ability to apply sounds, visuals and dynamic descriptions on the fly are essential to that, and require almost all my efforts during a session - excepting, of course, the times where NPC conversations come to the fore. |
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Valas:
Active, most definitely. Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of scripting to save myself and my co-dm some work. I'll script description triggers, special effects to help set the stage/scene, and some player specific items or scenes. Usually their are two DMs running my campaign so it is easier to keep up with the players and their antics.
All npcs are possessed by DMs except for the merchants and some bartenders. And even then, I'll possess a npc to do some "bartering" if needed or I want to get a special item to a player.
Usually I preset any monsters/encounters I want to the party to run into during the session. Then I can use the slider bar or place more monsters if they are too easy/challenging. I spend a lot of time in the toolset between sessions tweaking or responding to what the party did last session. And of course, tooling any brain storms I came up with during the week between sessions.
Still, with all the time I spend in the toolset, we stay quite busy during the session. Its never a dull moment!
Valas |
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Elbast
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Ochobee:
Like my other thread, just wanted to use this forum to bounce ideas around with other DMs to get a feel for different people's style...
How do you use your tells? Do you use them simply to convey information to specific characters (say like a ranger noticing tracks) or perhaps as the little voice in the back of a character's head that acts as a source of intuition? Have you ever used it to contact a charcter and have him perform a specific act (like simulating possesion by a malevolent entity) to help advance a plot?
Personally I've only used them so far as both an inner voice (giving clues to a riddle to a player with high INT when party was stumped) and as a simple DM voice (letting a new player with a mage character that he might want to leave the fighting to others after being saved from death) but I know there have to be some excellent uses for it that I haven't considered... |
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Elbast:
Tells are an interesting tool.
As a player I've seen them used to inform, hint, reply to checks, give insight, describe feelings and more, even to the point of downright suggestions of "do this". And of course, to deal with any in game problems.
As a DM.... I use them for all of the above, save "do this" type tells.
The most obvious, for me, is giving hints or clues, mainly in answer to skill checks - or gut feeling about whethe0r anything should be given away. If a player is asking for information appropriately, or the character is looking for somethingg etc... then a tell to the player concerned to describe what they see is appropriate.
The insight, and feelings tells though are more fun... this is where you can cause havoc, instilling a real sense of atmosphere and immersion.... for example if ONE of the party suddenly feels a chill in their spine - you don't shout it to the whole group.... but tell it to the player concerned alone, then watch the reaction.
In the campaign I'm running at the moment, the party are being harassed by a single unseen foe... he's teasing them as much as anything, often to the point of sneaking up on them, and either whispering something in an ear or tapping someone on the back, then disappearing.... I convey his actions by tells, signifying that only ONE of the group has noticed what has occured, and their reactions to it then play out.
Tells are great fun, and can really set the tone, for a great session. |
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Rofelli:
Like Elbast, most tells are to describe information to one member of the party, or to set up an ooc situation. For example, one of my players managed to memorize every single book in the city library, and we worked out, through tells, what, exactly, we're going to do about it.
Also, in a game I DMed a while ago, the party was tracking down a person through the woods, and he was watching specifically for broken branches and trampled undergrowth. I was using tells to inform him of these (pending Search checks).
But, as Elbast said, it's only appropriate when that one member should receive the information. |
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Elbast
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Whistler:
The only thing I'd recommend against is sending OOC tells to players while you are DMing.
I caught myself doing this a few times last week, and it isn't a good idea because it breaks immersion.
Game related stuff "you see something, you don't see something, the air smells strange, this reminds you of blah" and giving the high INT player clues are all good uses of tell.
But having an OOC conversation with a player is very distracting for both parties. Even giving them an OOC comment on something can be enough to break them out of character. |
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Ochobee:
I can see OOC tells being somewhat useful depending on the situation. As I mentioned earlier, I used them with a newer player just to give a friendly reminder that spellcasters make poor fighters after repeatedly seeing him rush into battle. I figured it would be a nice way of helping him get use to his role without making him feel uncomfortable by telling everyone.
And I like the idea of using tells to "creep out" a player or two. While running LB's Eth'barat module, I was sending out "eerie voices" to the party for atmosphere, but I can see using tells to send players information as a better kind of creepy.
Again, thanks to all for replying- this is just the kind of dialogue I was hoping for. |
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Elbast:
Important thing to remember....
If the players aren't getting/enjoying it... then let it rest.
Thing with "emotion" or "feelings" tells... if players don't welcome them (and some WONT like you telling them what THEIR characters feel) back off.
Use your tells on a player by player basis. Some will react positively, adding to the game, others will question why your telling them how their character feels.... just be aware and tailor your actions as appropriate. |
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Lazybones:
I use all of the above. I probably overuse it as "boss Telepathy" to send taunts/hints to players. But it's fun when players all start Shouting different things in response to something unique tailored to their character.
I do sometimes use the OOC tells but I try to keep in confined to the start of a session, before everyone arrives. I do sometimes get involved in an OOC conversation during the game through tells if one player is a veteran and we're working together to break in some newbies. |
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Carlo:
I see most of the uses have been covered above. A couple somewhat different things:
-- Tells used for perceptions. Sometimes a character will hallucinate, due to their own twisted psyche or perhaps outside influences. You can send them Tells about what they are perceiving, obviously. In a twist, you can also "reverse" it by creating things in-game, but then sending Tells to the other players to ignore them. Sounds a bit weird, but it works well if you're selective about it. For example, occasionally in "Desperate Measures" someone freaks (or is insane to begin with), and if they're off in a corner of their cell it's relatively easy to handle that kind of situation with "real" visions. The benefit of it is that they a) truly see something, which usually brings more of an impact with it, and b) can start confusing reality and insanity.
-- If you need an extensive OOC conversation (instead of just a simpely query or two) with someone, suggest having a "pull-aside" area where you can jump them to. In one module I use a "Limbo" area that's just a 4X4 foggy outdoors area. Even if it's only for a minute's worth of conversation, I find that preferable to trying to unravel something complex while the game is continuing on full blast. |
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Elbast
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Hahns Shin:
I'm a big advocate of player autonomy, so I never send tells that tell the player how the character feels or what the character does... the player created the character, thus he/she knows how best to RP their own character. If I didn't trust them to do that job, I wouldn't be DMing for them. That being said, you can use tells to great effect to relay information only that player character would know.
Tells in my games are almost entirely OOC. It is a "safety valve", a sort of release from being in character all the time. OOC tells often help people by reassuring them that this is a game, it's not real, we're still friends, etc.
Finally, the Tell and DM channels are always open for Players to tell me whatever they want. Open communication is always the key.
The best thing one can do is to set guidelines beforehand of your and your players' expectations on how to use the various channels in NWN. This way, everyone will be happy or at least know where the lines are drawn. |
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whistler:
on 26. Jul 2003 at 18:00, Hahns Shin wrote:| I'm a big advocate of player autonomy, so I never send tells that tell the player how the character feels or what the character does... the player created the character, thus he/she knows how best to RP their own character. If I didn't trust them to do that job, I wouldn't be DMing for them. That being said, you can use tells to great effect to relay information only that player character would know. |
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I'm a bit guilty of stepping on player's toes with their characters... if you are missing sessions, then something is going to happen to explain while you are gone.
The more notice the player gives me, the more input they can have on the "why" they are missing.
If the player gives me no notice then they'll probably end up being kidnapped, arrested, sleeping in, drunk, replaced by an NPC version of them that explains that they have to run off on some sub-plot for a while, or something like that.
One I replaced the party druid with a wolf henchmen for an entire session. |
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Elbast:
on 26. Jul 2003 at 18:00, Hahns Shin wrote:
I'm a big advocate of player autonomy, so I never send tells that tell the player how the character feels or what the character does |
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When I say "feels" above - I mean physical sensations... so cold gusts of wind, water dripping onto a shoulder, someone tapping them on the back etc...
As whistler said.. if you've got PCs missing sessions, but the game continues, then you have to come up with reasons for them being missing... easier in some settings than others. If a group is deep in the underdark, for instance, and a player misses a session, you can't exactly explain it away by saying "Mr X went to visit his mother" or similar trivial occurrance - the disappearance has to be worked into the game, or an NPC version used. IMO just pretending they are there does not cut it... especially for extended absenses. |
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Elbast
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Ochobee:
I figure this is the best forum to talk about the 'art' of DM'ing:
How do you, the more experienced DMs, handle the pace of your game with respect to the players movement? In guiding the party along through the story, especially if the players seem to be ready to storm into an area that you are not yet ready for them to go, how do you slow them down? Or do you?
This might be too broad a topic, but I'm looking to get a feel for how others work and have not had much of a chance to play with other DMs to really get a good feel for it...
Thanks in advance to all |
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Elbast:
Well... interesting one.
I think the first thing to remember is that... players will (generally) cover less ground than you thought they would.
I've staged 2 hour sessions in a medium-sized, and originally EMPTY cave area, and in the campaign I'm running (a modified version of LB's Torgan's Delve) the players have been in one cave area now for.... several sessions without the pace ever seeming too slow, or the game getting too repetitive (at least from their feedback).
There are many tricks to pacing too. Encounters are the most obvious, but traps, and NPCs - a random injured man for example - can hold a group up for hours (if need be) while they find an appropriate solution.
Most importantly though, I feel, is to let the players set the pace where they can. I prefer not to tie the players to a fast pace that they'll have to rush everything, or a slow pace where they get bored waiting for things to happen.
Adaptability, like with anything really, is the key, and practice makes perfect. |
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Ochobee:
Thanks for the input- that's the kind of thing I was looking for. I had tried using the random NPC trick in my first DM game and wound up creating a side plot hole that I hadn't intended, but that was my fault and I think I can do better.
Do you as a GM generally hover about around the party, or do you often find yourself prepping the areas ahead for the coming party? I think I found that while I would liked to have been a little ahead at times to give life to the scene before the players arrived, I didn't want to ignore what was going on in the party and leave them feeling that no one was listening (for DM calls and such). I'm sure this is all situation dependent- again I'm just trying to get a feel for how others work to help me mold myself into a better DM. |
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Elbast:
That's what co-DMs are for.
One always watching the group, another can be ahead to set-up.
Personally, I'd hate to try and DM alone in NWN, unless everything was pre-set, and even then, I reckon it's a tough ask. |
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Ochobee:
| I can see the distinct advantage in having multiple DM's. Luckily my one game so far was using a module that did take care of most of the details, leaving the DM free to handle things like conversations and "flavor". Without that it would have been very difficult indeed. |
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Elbast
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Rofelli:
Like Elbast said, it's fairly easy to keep things built way ahead of the PCs. I keep my mods incredibly open-ended, but prepare enough to cover several sessions...it's the idea that you can guess what goal they're shooting for, and then give them several different paths to get to it (what they do after they get to that goal...that's a different point). As of now, I think I can reasonably expect that I will have no "heavy building" (i.e., areas and plot points) to do for at least 4-6 sessions (give me 10 minutes, I'll think of another plot path to prepare for).
But, of course this means a LOT of prep work beforehand. A slow building week for me involves 5 hours between designing NPC personalities, custom equipment, plot paths, scripting, and building...but I enjoy doing those sorts of things.
And, of course, none of that matters when the PCs do something off the wall, and you need to improv.
I rarely need to leave the group to prep stuff ahead of them. Occassionally I do, but I hop back as quickly as I can. If you really need to listen to every word, just have them speak in Party mode. A co-DM certainly helps, but there are work-arounds.
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Ochobee:
Are the modules you run focused on a particular task at hand (ie. Retrieve the Golden Yak or stop nefarious villan whoosit) or are they more open ended?
I guess since my interest lies more in one-shot adventures than campaigns I am thinking more about pace than someone running a more open-ended campaign. By one shot I mean that there is a definite beginning and end as in, "Your quest is to do X" not neccessarily a one session game.
Again thanks for the input- this is the kind of thing I was hoping for. Sort of an open discussion for post DM 101 people... |
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Elbast:
heh. "Your quest is do X" can easily turn into a full length campaign
I guess one of the keys with one-shot type stuff is: how long do you WANT it to take, what kind of timeframe you have in mind for the completion of the quest.
Yes, leave the final pacing to the players, but have an idea of how long YOU think it should last when designing it.
I have a one-shot mod myself (could easily be the base for a mini-campaign too, with the right players). It's a very simple quest - a rescue - with defined beginning middle and end. The plot however is not so straightforward, and there are multiple ways it could end.
It helps, in short games (by short I mean one- or two sessions, "one-shots" - not necessarily short sessions) to have a definate plan, whereas campaigns are, by their very nature, more open ended - even if there is a fairly rigid story arc running through them. |
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Rofelli:
on 18. Jul 2003 at 04:36, Ochobee wrote:
Are the modules you run focused on a particular task at hand (ie. Retrieve the Golden Yak or stop nefarious villan whoosit) or are they more open ended? |
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If that was to me, both. The campaign I'm running is divided into modules, no doubt, but they transition smoothly into one another. As a matter of fact, in the last session, I had to combine several areas from the first and second. It's hard to say where the first ended and the second began, since it's the same conversation that ends the module and gives the plot for the next.
Now, to give an example, consider the first module: the players were consigned (under the threat of imprisonment) to retrieve stolen blueprints and capture the assassin that took them. So, they hunt him down with very little information, only to get caught up in the intrigues of the city that he was hiding in.
Now, their goal is still to recover the plans; how they use the city factions to achieve their goals sets up who their future antagonists are...kill the children of a country-wide crime family, and that family is out for your blood...help them out, and all the little pickpockets and thugs who were being eradicated by the presence of more powerful, organized crime begin causing you headaches (translation: stay off of their turf)...and there are a LOT of factions.
Even once you get the blueprints, there are a series of choices, all of which have options (especially once you realize that the plans can be quite unbalancing to the power structures of the entire region): do you return them? Destroy them? Sell them to the highest bidder? Use them for your own personal gain? I developed possible plot paths for each. Each would lead to a different second module. And each would have a different goal, and if the players flout that goal, then I need to find a way to wing it as they figure out what to do next (i.e., accept the goal I give you, or decide a goal for yourself...it's irrelevant to me). |
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Elbast
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whistler:
If you want to slow the party down then just have them find some treasure.
This *always* slows them down. |
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SweeneyTodd:
Hoo, boy, our rule of thumb is that if the party finds treasure, go get a soda and come back in twenty minutes.
Shops are next, about ten minutes, and leveling is actually the fastest thing to get through.
With more selfish players treasure division might actually go faster; I see a lot of 'no, YOU take it' going on.
Our rule of thumb is that the players will get through one 'scene' every hour. A scene might be a visit to an inn or a small dungeon crawl (one area). We try to get through four scenes in a four-hour session, and usually do it, with a little rushing.
DMing without assistance I'd aim for a scene every 75-90 minutes. Again, it depends on how much is going on.
Adjusting pace is easy if you place monsters on the fly (which we do almost exclusively in Fleet Street games), as you can decide just beforehand how much resistance you want in a given area.
One piece of advice -- for anything except one shots (and perhaps even then) book aside 30 minutes at one point in the module (probably the beginning) for the players to just _talk_. My experience is that it's more fulfilling if the characters have a good idea about each other before combat starts.
Let me dissect the module we've run the most, "M1 Menhir Plains" without spoilers.
first hour - OOC setup, and the initial stop in at an inn.
second hour - overland travel, a few small encounters, an NPC interaction, some more encounters.
third hour - 1 1/2 areas worth of dungeon crawling.
fourth hour - a rest stop and discussion area (15 minutes), closing out the module (30 min), OOC wrapup (15 min).
The total travel distance is about five or six areas. And that's on a module we've run dozens of times, so going slower is certainly not a problem. |
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Arawen:
I have found pacing to be the most challenging aspect of DMing. Each player, and group of players, will have their own sense of what mix of activities and pace is enjoyable.
My own campaign is heavily oriented towards roleplaying. Thaelson, Gonesailing and I run the game as an unscripted soundstage, with the pace dependent on our perception of how the players are doing.
During our 2 1/2 hour long weekly games over the past three months, we average four scenes per game.
In an average game, at least two longer scenes involve dramatic roleplay: a conflict, a personal tie to PCs, a problem that demands choices, etc. Combat scenes tend to be shorter, often interludes, unless there is a really important plot reason for a special combat challenge. Often in four scene game, three scenes may focus on roleplay, though in different aspects.
For example, in a recent game, the PCs attended an enemy war council while being disguised. Once there, they decided that they were against the war, and they chose to roleplay their position in a way that reduced their chances of getting caught.
With a three DM team, it is easy to do multiple scenes. We have done as many as six in a two and a half hour game. I have done three to five scene 2 1/2 hour games as a solo DM as well.
I usually have several different scenarios and as well as extra content in the palette with which to improv. In addition, I try to build my games with a structure that helps control the pace of the game. Having areas that the PCs cannot reach until the DM decides to allow them in enables me to jump ahead if necessary to bring in an NPC or set a up a battle. Shopping can slow down PCs as well. Wide open wilderness can go more quickly than narrow dark tunnels, etc.
Because I DM a build as you go adventure, the campaign game ends wherever it ends. Usually, if we are heading into the last 15 minutes, the DM team starts brainstorming about how to conclude in a memorable way.
Arawen |
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Lazybones:
I DM almost exclusively solo, so I have to trust my players and do a lot of work beforehand to ensure that things don't get out of hand. I do prepare an overall "plot" in all my games, but I also have a palette full of about 100 custom NPCs and interesting creatures that I can spawn in for an impromptu diversion/encounter.
Since I build my own mods, I have complete control in terms of determining where players don't go, and NWN makes it fairly easy to build in break points where you need to do something in order to continue.
Most of my games are campaigns, so pacing isn't really a problem--I just follow the players and implement the plot as they go. I've run two groups simultaneously through the same campaign a few times and noticed that one went significantly faster through than the other (7-9 2-hour sessions to finish versus 10-12). I find writing up an extensive DM's guide to each module, noting the main plot points, side-quests, and NPCs helps immeasurably. |
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DaleV:
| An intimate knowledge of the module you're DMing tends to help things along quite a bit. No one knows your DMing style better than you do, and so building your own mod allows you to conform the story and adventure around your unique habits. Gives gameplay a natural feel that players tend to notice. Then, should you have other DMs on the project with you, you'd be surprised how useful a good MAP can be! I'd suggest creating a map to anyone thinking of doing their own mod. There's nothing like being online (having DMs run quests in a world that I created) and having the DMs secretly ask me things like "What's north?" "What's the closest city?" |
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Elbast
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AlexanderFrost:
Just thought I'd toss in my 1 and a half cents...can't afford 2 cents.
I do a lot of pre-building on my modules, but I only ever DM solo. I'm a very heavy scripter in most cases, though my conversations are always possessed NPCs. I don't agree with forcing PCs to select from limited responses.
By keeping the players on Party Talk, I can step away from them a bit now and then to take care of things ahead without missing what they're saying. If they say something I need to respond to by being there, I just double click by them on the minimap and hop to them.
For complex "cutscene" parts, I developed an internal Event Rod for my module. It opens a conversation file that has triggers for several key events that I'd like to happen. That way, I can trigger them remotely if necessary, and I can appear to control several NPCs all at once, without actually having to worry about it much.
I have an entire sacrificial cut scene broken into several events that are all keyed to that one rod. It works pretty well, I think. Certainly makes my job easier, I know that much.
As for the overall pacing...I generally let the players set their own pace. I don't like to push them forward if they're having fun roleplaying, or force them to roleplay if they're having fun fighting. For that reason, my games can often run over time, if the players want it to.
I, however, only have experience with one-shot modules at this point, not campaigns...so my 1 and a half cents doesn't apply to that. |
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whistler:
| The thing I find about campaigns is that you really have to be prepared for things on the fly.. because there just isn't that much prep-time during the week. |
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Elbast:
Yup... I can't script fast, and lately my enthusiasm for actual building/modifying has been lower anyways (need my forthcoming holiday BADLY i think). But thanks to wandsets, and pre-thought on the NPC pallette/possible sideplots issues I've been able to keep the campaign going and work around player absenses - while keeping things (at least mildly) involving and spending no more than an hour or two each week.
I need to start spending more soon, as the need for original content goes up every week, but I'm constantly suprised by how little content is needed to get through a session. I may be lucky in having players that like to go slow though... at 2 hours a session, they've spent 3 or more sessions in one area now without a word of complaint. |
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Carlo:
A lot of very useful material above.
One thing you can do in a module is have "events" held in reserve. For soundstage modules, this is generally how the entire session is run -- a series of DM'd events/encounters. Even for heavily scripted modules, it's relatively easy to have something simple held back for an appropriate moment.
By events I mean an encounter or situation that the PCs find themselves in via intervention of a DM-controlled NPC. You can also call them "subplots" or whatever you like. There is great scope for creativity in choosing material appropriate to the module, as well as more generic ones. (A beggar child fleeing the local guards after stealing bread runs into the PCs, rabid badger on the loose that the PCs are asked to help find, etc.)
Why I like these is that you can make them either slow down or speed up the pacing, depending. If you want to slow down the main plot line, an event is perfect for a distraction, especially if it's open-ended as to the consequences. On the other hand, If PCs are going in circles and getting frustrated, an event can happen that will put them headed in the right direction again -- even if it's just a tip from a now-friendly guardsman or grateful beggar child. |
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Elbast
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Ochobee:
Now I think every DM, old or new, knows that the Quickslots are their best friend and make your life much easier. The question then becomes: how do you use your quickslots? While I understand they may be game dependent, are there certain ways that you set them up before every game?
I have personally tend to stick my trusty DMFI wands in easy to reach slots (usually have the sound effects in F11 and the FX in F12) and then keep monster spawns in my CTRL function slots- but I know that I am not using the Quickslots to their full potential. Part of the problem might be that I have yet to grasp all of the things that can even be put in a Quickslot. Since the module I am running now calls for an automatic level gain and gold at the start I also have the appropriate "give" slots set up, but do any of you more seasoned DMs have tricks that you might be able to share?
Thanks in advance to all who respond... |
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Rofelli:
I keep all of the DMFI rods that I almost-always find a use for in the quickslots. Currently, those are:
1 - DM Wand
2 - Emote Wand
3 - FX Rod
4 - Sound FX Rod
5 - Music Rod
6 - Rod of Affliction
(Note: these are way out of order).
Plus, in case I'm goofing off with SetAppearance, I keep a keyed "Revert Appearance."
As for the others, it depends. If I know I need to spawn something/someone in ahead of time, I'll throw that object somewhere in the quickslots that I'll remember. Generally, major NPCs are in my shift-quickslots.
If it looks like I need to grab an object quickly (such as a PC buying ale from a waitress), I'll quickly toss it into whatever quickslot I see open. For example, about a week and a half ago, the players came across a head impaled on a pole that they had left in the sun for several days, since they first came that way. Seeing that one of the PCs was having a moral problem with this, I quickly quickslotted a fallen timber to plug in when he got around to knocking over the pole.
For future reference: the quarterstaff is a better choice in this regard. |
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Hahns Shin:
Quickslots that I use on a regular basis, depending on the game:
Main:
Examine - You can't access this, usually, from just the radial in the DM client. You need to import a PC character to the dmvault directory that has Examine in the quickbar (PCs can, DMs can't, odd isn't it?). This allows you to see what the PCs see on Examining, instead of the usual DM character sheet examine.
Toggle Invulnerable - You need to be quick on the draw for this.
DM Heal - The all-purpose clear buff, clear action queue, heal all HP function.
DMFI DM Wand - Usually on the far right, out of the way. It's easy to access, but not as important to access on the fly.
DMFI Voice Widget - This is the tool I use the MOST, by far. I will admit the voice is probably the most difficult to master, but it allows you to do so much through command lines.
DMFI FX Wand - The essential "smoke and mirrors" tool.
Encounter Wand and Ditto Widget - This allows me to come up with encounters quickly
I usually leave a couple of slots open to fill them up with things I may need on the fly, like encounter groups of creatures or modules specific widgets or something. Also, ever since using the Voice *emote* commands, I've been able to ditch the Emote wand, which saves a slot.
SHIFT:
All of my "spells" go here. I typically have Bull's Strength, Endurance, Endure Elements, Greater Stoneskin, Bigby's Forceful Hand, Ressurection, a couple Cure spells, and Bestow Curse lined up in these slots. A good mix of buffs (which transform encounters drastically) and "support" spells that you may need to keep the players alive without DM Healing. You can also use spells as in-game bonuses (this water refreshes you completely!) and a "poor man's" VFX engine (Flesh To Stone, anyone?). The Bigby's Forceful Hand is an interesting choice, because it is a "paralyze" spell that has a decent duration and has an impressive effect to keep players pacified in a situation that requires it (an evil wizard "Silence, fool!".
CTRL: Widgets and Creatures
Most of my module specific widgets are here, like Racial Language widgets, Widgets that re-"seed" encounters, create dinner place-settings, etc. I also place creature groups, items, and placeables that I might need here.
There is no right or wrong way to set up your quickslots. In fact, the best thing to do is to stay flexible, always change your quickslots for the group that you are DMing. Personal preference comes into play, as well... I never put phrases or emotes in the quickbars, always manually typing out everything. You may find that you want to put some commonly-used phrases in there. |
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Elbast
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Arawen:
I use quickslots in the following way:
first set: DMFI tools, toggle invulerable, DM heal, possess, possess fullpowers. The latter two help me jump quickly from NPC to NPC.
shift: custom tools like my campaign rest control widget, more DM tools, placeables & items such as healing kits, hotkeyed XP awards
ctrl: creatures with labels beside them
In addition, when I possess an NPC or creature that will have an extended role, I usually create and hotkey a DMFI one ring (an all in one DMFI tool), a few emotes, combat tactics, spells, phrases, etc.
I have tried the DMFI voice widget but it seems to be unreliable on my low power, low bandwidth server.
Arawen |
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Elbast:
Wands... lost of them, though I routinely only use a few.
The key things for me - DM heal, Goto, VFX wand and Rest device are the ones I use most.
This along with the Ultravision spell (one day i'll get around to putting it on an item) to "see" better without a DM-centred light spell illuminating the place for PCs forms my main usage.
Then the DM wand and emote wand fill out my first bar (along with posess and DM kill - just in case i need to remove something fast).
Goto I find invaluable, with co-DMs and players everywhere just hitting F1 and left-clicking a portrait over the radial is a small, but to me significant, difference.
Other wands I use commonly - the SFX, affliction and encounter wands, are stored in the ctrl quickbar.
That's about all that I have (that I use). I've the voice widget and Party 500XP widget easily available too - and will use the voice if I've had enough pre-knowledge of a situation arising that I can skip ahead, appear to the voice and set it up. Only once have I really had success with this - playing 3 NPCs simultaneously in a cutscene.
I tend to leave creature spawns to my co-DMs (if what is required is over and above what I've put onto my customised encounter wand) and any I do spawn manually tend to be from the creator or jumping them in from limbo via the chooser as they are of the "individual" type.
Spells etc: one day I'll get around to quickslotting some - Raise Dead and Ressurection come to mind as beign useful - but for the most part I use them so rarely that I'll go through the radial to find 'em. |
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Lazybones:
I pretty much do the same thing you guys do, but one thing I've found useful is to do up a 3x12 grid in Word. About half my regular and Shift-slots are "fixed" and don't change game to game, so I entered those, and then copied the grid 10 times onto the front and back of a sheet of paper. Then each session/different game I write in the creatures/special commands/spells that I'll be using. Typically I only have to change 3-4 for each session of a campaign, but if starting a new game, I'll boot up the client early and go in and reset them. The beauty of the character creation system is that you can save each quickbar configuration as a different character (you just need to note which # = which config).
I also find it vital (thanks Sweeney) to have the following commands on my Shift-bar, slots 7-12:
##dm_modifySTR +4
##dm_modifySTR -4
##dm_modifyCON +4
##dm_setCON 28
##dm_modifyDEX +4
##dm_modifyDEX -4
This allows me to adjust the difficulty of a spawned creature in a matter of seconds.
Finally, since I play HCR, I keep Cure Minor Wounds on the default quickbar (though don't tell my players that). |
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Eliandi
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Just ran a good session, and wante to put up a post while I was high on it.
What made it good? The campaign is really starting to gel. Its a city campaign, all homebuilt week by week as I needed more areas and NPCs. We are ~2mo into it, and the city is really coming to life.
My whole DM design goal has been to make it a living, beathing city. All the NPCs have occupations and motives. The PCs have friends, contacts, rivals, enemies, etc. There are places to shop, eat, gather info, whatver. And best of all, the place is rife with rumors and goings on. Things will happen each day in the city regardless of the PCs actions, but the PCs actions are affecting the course of the overall campaign. The group is eating it up.
OK, so what is the point? Detail and complexity and subtlety is good. In my previous campaign, I focused on epic and heroic and kept things moving quickly so players wouldn't notice the half-full towns and empty markets. Now I'm slowing it way down, and making those places important. Your players may have to adjust if they are used to more hack-n-slash.
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