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Topic: Dragon's Age - What do you think? (Read 540 times) |
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Lazybones
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There was an old thread leading up to the release, but now that the game is out, I thought I'd see what the community thought of the big RPG release from Bioware. I would suggest keeping spoilers out of the discussion.
I want to play more before I make a firm judgment, but I'm about six hours in and it's good, though certainly not without its problems. Graphics are a mix; the environments are amazing, the characters somewhat less so, especially when you zoom in on them during cutscenes. I'd say the character models are better than Oblivion and worse than Mass Effect. The animations are far and away better than NWN2 but in some ways worse than NWN1 in a few cases. One thing that ticks me off somewhat is that you can't block a space with a person (enemies can go right through your space), although there are abilities that allow fighters to draw aggression from enemies. There's a lot of micromanagement involved if you want to stay alive. And you'll use the pause feature a lot; the game is very challenging on Normal difficulty.
The plot is typical Bioware thus far; all of the early plot twists are visible a league away, and the game is probably the darkest Bioware's done. There's no alignment in the game but some significant decisions for the player to make; more along the lines of Mass Effect's Paragon/Renegade path than the typical Good/Evil you see in fantasy RPGs. I've unlocked six NPCs (you can have up to 3 in your party at once) and they are a fairly interesting lot thus far.
I think some people are going to be ticked about the way they integrated downloadable content. There's already a Day-1 quest for purchase, and a dialogue option in the game prompts you to buy it to "activate" an NPC's dialogue option. A little tacky IMO (today's Penny Arcade comments on the issue).
I haven't looked at the toolset yet. The game offers some intriguing mechanics, but at its core it's the same stuff you've seen before. It would be interesting to see what would come of it if Bioware elected to release a DM Client at some point in the series.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 7, 2009, 1:00AM » |
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Mulu
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The main complaint I've heard about it is the locked camera.
I was going to wait until some bundled version was released in a couple of years, but now I really want to wait so that hopefully all the DLC gets bundled too. I typically only play SP games once, so if DLC add-ons to the campaign is their idea of replayability, I'll just wait until it's all in one big package.
I want to get a new rig first anyway.
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NWN DM
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I have never ever finished a SP RPG... including NWN, BG, etc....
So, DA holds no interest for me without MP and a DMC.
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Ocanthus
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on Nov 7, 2009, 5:25 AM, NWN DM wrote:I have never ever finished a SP RPG... including NWN, BG, etc....
So, DA holds no interest for me without MP and a DMC. |
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My sentiments exactly.
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Smart Alec
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I'm really rather enjoying it. I like the character levelup and abilities system so far, I'm getting a handle on the mechanics (MMO experience helps) and I'm a sucker for the kind of story they're telling. I have a funny feeling I'm among the target audience for this sort of thing. More thoughts after a bit more play.
As an aside, the 'No MP = no fun' view is one I've heard often, and I'm not quite sure what it's rooted in. I read books and watch movies alone, and these entertain; this seems like exactly the same kind of entertainment, with an element of interactivity to sweeten it. What's the down side?
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 7, 2009, 10:01PM » |
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hoyasaxa
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Got it yesterday viA DIRECT2DRIVE. Good system. Looks good though wish I had first person camera. Still waiting Im afriad for Oblivion meets FallOut 3 meets Baldurs Gate meets NWN D&D style. Alas.
Never did get nwn2 to play right consistently. With new PC last spring never got nwn or nwn2 back and running strong. Hope Dragon Age the answer.
Seems a lot less complex/detailed in terms of character types - dumbed down? Look forward to seeing what add on content can do.
Miss my nwn campaigns a lot. Just can no longer commit to a regularly scheduled weekly session, unfortunately.
Hope all are well- miss you guys.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 8, 2009, 5:09PM » |
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Venture
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on Nov 7, 2009, 5:07 AM, Mulu wrote:| The main complaint I've heard about it is the locked camera. |
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Is that on the console versions? Because I'm playing the PC version, and I can move the camera in and out, pan up and down, and swing it around to all sides. The only time it is locked to any extent is when it is zoomed all the way out, at which point it snaps into a Baldur's Gate-like isometric view, which is great for tactics. Even then you can drag the camera overhead in each direction for a limited distance, to pan the battlefield. I know that on consoles, you can't go to the isometric view.
I must say, I'm having a blast - probably more fun with this than any single player game I've played going back to BG2. The story is somewhat standard fantasy fare, but done in a way to make it very engrossing.
The voice acting is superb. Coupled with the animations present during dialog, it really draws me in.
I'm really enjoying the gameplay and "feel," too. In addition to story, Bioware just has a knack for that.
I do understand "to each his own," and if single player games aren't your thing, then they're not your thing. While I do wish the game had a multiplayer component, I do enjoy a good single player RPG, and this one is great.
It is also HUGE. Thanks to an understanding wife and my dereliction of all other duties, I played several evenings last week, large chunks of time this weekend, and a couple of hours last night, and I think I've still played less than 10% of the game according to the in-game stats.
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NWN DM
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on Nov 7, 2009, 9:59 PM, Smart Alec wrote:| As an aside, the 'No MP = no fun' view is one I've heard often, and I'm not quite sure what it's rooted in. |
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The game is not balanced for lean.
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Urk
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on Nov 7, 2009, 9:59 PM, Smart Alec wrote:| As an aside, the 'No MP = no fun' view is one I've heard often, and I'm not quite sure what it's rooted in. I read books and watch movies alone, and these entertain; this seems like exactly the same kind of entertainment, with an element of interactivity to sweeten it. What's the down side? |
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I won't say no multiplayer = no fun. But Multiplayer is many fold more fun. I beat Baldur's Gate, I finished DoD and I almost finished MoW.
But comparing role playing to reading and watching movies isn't really valid. Role playing is more like sports or sex.
SP is a hollow, lonely substitute for the real thing.
You're going to do it. If you have to do it alone, so be it. But it's a lot more fun if you can find someone to play with.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 11, 2009, 4:28AM » |
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Smart Alec
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on Nov 11, 2009, 4:33 AM, Ocanthus wrote:| Urk has it exactly right. |
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No, I don't think he does.
I don't think he understood me, really. I'm not comparing roleplaying to watching movies or reading books. I'm comparing single-player games to watching movies or reading books; as far as I see it, they are very much the same thing. A writer/director/etc is presenting you with a piece of work which you can experience at your leisure. I don't get the same things out of single-player games as I do out of multiplayer games, and vice versa. I consider them different kinds of entertainment.
Therefore, I do not think it is not sensible to judge a single-player game by the experience of a multiplayer game, in the same way that it is not sensible to judge reading a book by the experience you get from being involved in amateur dramatics. I don't think you can compare single-player games to multiplayer games, at all. I can understand someone enjoying amateur dramatics more than reading, and vice versa; but saying that reading or amDram are somehow 'lesser' compared to the other seems ridiculous.
So there we go. I can understand not liking single-player roleplaying games; but not liking them purely because they are not multiplayer is something I do not think is entirely valid. Lots of things aren't multiplayer games, but you probably like some of them.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 11, 2009, 5:08AM » |
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Lazybones
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I am enjoying Dragon Age; I enjoy Neverwinter Nights. They are both fun. But something tells me I won't still be playing Dragon Age in seven years. I think it's multiplayer that gives a game legs, whether the game be an FPS, RPG, or RTS title.
Of course, they could decide to release the sequel with a DM Client, then all bets are off. 
The game is very evocative of the old Infinity-engine games, and I mean that in a very complimentary way. There's even a lot of little easter egg references to the Baldur's Gate series every here and there.
One thing DA has going for it, there's a lot there; I'm about 10 hours in now and from what I can see I've barely scratched the surface. If this was a Call of Duty game I'd be halfway through my second playthrough. Heck, I still haven't done more than played around with the tactics screen, and it looks like there's a lot of depth there.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 11, 2009, 5:42AM » |
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Starbuck79
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Figured I would check in after many years of being away.
Dragon age is the best single player RPG in a LONG LONG time. Better than any version of NWN single player, Mass Effect, and just ahead of The Witcher because of the party system.
Aside from a few texture issues in certain places it's a beautiful game. Very few bugs and aside from some day 1 issues from Impulse the DLC system is great. I haven't messed with the toolset yet but I know Adam Mill has moved all his focus there.
It really is the engine that NWN2 should have been. Other than the fact that Multiplayer/DMC is a loss it would make for a new perfect multiplayer engine. There is already a toolset so we can just pray that a DMC will be released with a future expansion.
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Katarina Dragonstar
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The new issue of "PC Gamer" has a huge review on Dragon Age. Overall, they rated it very highly in terms of game play and replayability. Their down comments were that some of the very early area scenery is not very good but that it does get substantially better as the game goes along. They also noted that the battles are VERY tough on the normal level and that good tactical decisions are essential to survival.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 11, 2009, 6:07PM » |
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Venture
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on Nov 11, 2009, 6:06 PM, Katarina Dragonstar wrote:| They also noted that the battles are VERY tough on the normal level and that good tactical decisions are essential to survival. |
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I'll second that- there were a couple of battles early on, such as against an ogre, that were crazy hard. That actually seemed to be one of the big complaints with the game- that "Easy" and "Normal" weren't easy or normal. The first patch did lower the difficulty on both "Easy" and "Normal," while keeping the other difficulty levels the same. Also, now that I've added a healer to my party, I'm having a much better time with things.
Speaking of the ogre, that reminds me of another plus- the battles in this game are very dramatic. Like some of the NWN giants, some creatures throw boulders. The ogre is huge, and will grab a character in its hand, lift the character up, and start pummeling him. There are different character abilities which have a stun attribute, which the other party members can try to use in that situation to stop the pummeling.
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Ocanthus
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So there we go. I can understand not liking single-player roleplaying games; but not liking them purely because they are not multiplayer is something I do not think is entirely valid. Lots of things aren't multiplayer games, but you probably like some of them. |
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There is no such thing as a SP RPG. You're not playing a role in an SP RPG. You are selecting among pre-defined options. That's not role-playing.
MP is the only way to experience an RPG.
There are SP games that are fun, and I play some of them. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are both fun. But I don't consider them RPGs. They are jacked up First Person Shooters.
This was always my problem with NWN and NWN2. I love both games. But they are based on D&D, which is necessarily MP. The design decision to focus on the SP experience was nothing short of stupid. I have never completed any of the SP modules, including the commercial ones, usually because I get frustrated or bored to tears. The dumb conversation choices, or the forced companions, or other artificial limitations prevent SPs from being RPGs.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 12, 2009, 1:03AM » |
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GateCrash
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Sorry to (continue to) pull this off-topic, LB.
I would have to strongly disagree with that last statement, in my own experience. I think that you can be as invested in a character you play in an SP RPG as in an MP RPG. Your interaction with other characters will be limited--and their responses, obviously, even more so.
But building a character in your mind does not have to stop at the tools the game designers gave you any more than it does in NWN. Nor is it limited to just what actions your character performs. In my mind, my characters have feelings, histories, build relationships well beyond what is required to play the game.
I remember reaching the point in Mass Effect where I had to choose which of my crew members to save and which to let die. I actually put the controller down and agonized over the decision for probably a few minutes more than would be considered healthy in a well-adjusted adult. But I had grown and adventured with both of those characters since the beginning of the game, and I couldn't see how I could choose between them.
I've since tried restarting the game as a different character, just to explore some of the options that I didn't try the first time through, and I just can't get into it. That game for me will be forever linked with the character I built on my first playthrough.
Maybe we differ in our definition of RP. But to me, if I can develop a character to the point where I think I know how he would think and what he is feeling, I am happy to call that playing a role. Even if I am playing that role for no larger audience than myself.
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Mulu
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on Nov 12, 2009, 1:02 AM, Ocanthus wrote:
The design decision to focus on the SP experience was nothing short of stupid. |
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Actually it was very smart from a business perspective. Something like only 6% of the people who purchased NWN/NWN2 ever used the online multiplayer features (which requires activating and using a GameSpy account, hence how they know). I'm sure it took far more than 6% of their total costs to include the multiplayer features, making that a net loss. DM client is even worse, probably used by far less than 1% of purchasers.
Multiplayer gives a game legs and makes it last, no one's going to be playing Dragon Age Origins 7 years from now, but the developers don't make much money off the residual sales of a long lived game. SP drives expansion sales too, after all. They'd much rather you buy Dragon Age III in seven years than still be running some DA O game. And that's smart business. Catering to our micro-niche is not smart business.
I'd be satisfied with them just releasing a game that would allow the community to make a DM client. Put in the hooks and let others actually develop it, but even that is probably too much to ask from a profit margin / ROI perspective.
What really needs to happen is for WotC to realize that D&D multiplayer computer games opens up a new market for their books. I hadn't bought any D&D materials for years when NWN came out. I almost immediately bought the 3.0 core books, and have purchased a few splat books since. I never would have bought those books without NWN. Though I'm not sure how many others did likewise. Still, if a new D&D computer game were to come out from Atari with a DM client, easy toolset, etc., and plug in with their hardcover books, well that seems like a good marriage to me, and potentially smart business.
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| « Last Edit: on: Nov 12, 2009, 10:50PM » |
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