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Topic: We're all going to Hell... (Read 532 times) |
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Stammer
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I started pouring over the comic a bit more. Ya know, Satan is a bit player in that. He's not even mentioned until the end. The most of it revolves around propogating DnD. The girl casts a spell on her dad because he tried to make her *stop playing* and he ends up buying her $200 with of DnD stuff. I don't know, if I were casting the spell, I think I'd take the cash instead. Two hundred dollars would be the downpayment on my fall semester.
And who is this Diana that temple is dedicated? I'm not in the know about this occult hooey.
It get funnier when the eyes stop rolling and focus on the story.
I remembered I said that kind of nonsense thinking can trace it's history to the early eighties, and I just looked at the copyright on the strip: 1984.
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| « Last Edit: on: Jul 1, 2004, 3:41AM » |
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Stammer
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on Jul 1, 2004, 3:51 AM, Dane Bramage wrote:on Jul 1, 2004, 3:35 AM, Stammer wrote:| And who is this Diana that temple is dedicated? I'm not in the know about this occult hooey. |
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Diana is/was a Greek goddess. Not sure of what, tho, but she is very prominant in female based cults. Quite possibly a major figure in Wicca as well.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong 
Dane. |
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Oh yes! I remember now. Checking out J'Dai's godchecker...
It says she's a roman god. Let me check another source...
Ok, the consensus is she's a Roman god:
Diana is the mother of wild animals and forests, and a moon goddess. Oak groves are especially sacred to her. She is praised for her strength, athletic grace, beauty and her hunting skills. With two other deities she made up a trinity: Egeria the water nymph, her servant and assistant midwife; and Virbius, the woodland god.
Sounds like my kind of lady. Natural and nurturing. Doesn't sound to evil does she, ready to corrupt all those young minds to play D&D for the sake of playing D&D.
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| « Last Edit: on: Jul 1, 2004, 5:41AM » |
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Gornt
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btw: the bible incident you're referring to actually happens twice (and is by no means the most disturbing part of the Old Testament): check Genesis 19:5 and then again in Judges 19:22.
edit: removed comment related to another thread
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| « Last Edit: on: Jul 1, 2004, 1:00PM » |
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Stammer
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on Jul 1, 2004, 11:48 AM, Gornt wrote:btw: the bible incident you're referring to actually happens twice (and is by no means the most disturbing part of the Old Testament): check Genesis 19:5 and then again in Judges 19:22.
edit: removed comment related to another thread |
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I'm sure there are many. I never read the bible. I intended to at one time, not for it's religious implications, but rather it's literary appeal. It is, after all, dramatic verse and verse is the basis for poetry. But one thing lead to another and I got "busy" with other things and never got past Genesis.
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| « Last Edit: on: Jul 3, 2004, 2:17AM » |
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Gornt
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I took a Bible As Literature course in college. It was one of the best classes I had. It's amazing what's actually in the bible, as opposed to what people tell you is in the bible. Very different things.
For a quick and fun primer on some (odd) Bible stories check out:
http://www.thebricktestament.com/
(Short Bible stories acted out with Legos... very funny)
http://www.e-sheep.com/apocamon/
(The Book of Revelations text acted out with Pokemon-style characters. Deleriously strange)
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Talondale
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Ok to add a voice of experience here as most posters seem to have little or no experience with the Christian faith. I grew up in a Independant Baptist (think Bob Jones) Church during the age of Chic publications and the birth of D&D and have heard all the stories and arguments against. Basically it boils down to people who see all things as originating from one source or another (good/evil) as opposed to some things being nuetral positionally (D&D lingo?). For example: some forms of music are "evil" and some are "good". Rather than music being an nuetral factor that can be both good and bad as it reflects it's creator. So taking the extreme and mixing in a lot of misinformation some people have over-reactions. Unfortunately the one good point made, in that anything in excess can be bad, is lost in hyperbole. True, this can be applied to anything, and perhaps should.
At the same time the over-reaction to such misinformation is, in my opinion, just as blind and bigotted.
I actually belong to a loosely affiliated group of Christian Gamers (Christian Gamers Guild : http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2964/ ) that play RPG and have in depth discussions about playing RPG's and the role of our faith in our games. So not all Christians come from this point of view.
For your edification,
T
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Druid of the Western Star
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I know not all Christians are the same. In my opinion it is people who forget the shades of grey. Nothing in real life is black or white, I don't care what anyone says. There is always the grey area, and people forget this. I myself first started DnD as a Catholic. Since then I have changed my own views, but not to what others would call evil. If anything I went to a more peaceful approach to stuff that reflects how I feel better.
I don't think DnD is as bad as some make it sound, but then again if people lose sight that it is just a game it could be bad. I have heard stories from my mom who played DnD about a friend of hers who got so wrapped in the game and forgot that it wasn't real. He seemed normal before then, but went a little to far with the game and lost track of reality. In my opinion there were problems before, and he found sanctuary in the game...hence the shades of GREY.
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Lazybones
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Good discussion all, and thanks for keeping it civil. At ENWorld, where I also spend a lot of forum-time, there's a "no religion" rule (and no politics as well!) but I'm glad that we can discuss the relationship between gaming and religion here at NWC without getting into attacks and flames.
*tosses moderator hat into the corner and goes to take a nap*
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Rofelli
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I personally have nothing against people saying that something is good or evil; I'd say that about several things. I have problem when they deliberately misrepresent situations and fabricate lies to achieve their "good" agenda. That's exactly what the author of the comic did, as well as every person who has helped or promoted it.
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Mulu
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on Jul 7, 2004, 4:24 PM, Dane Bramage wrote:| And I have no problem what other folks believe... unless you think it's good to eat babies or something like that |
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Well, technically, they do have everything the body needs.... 
I've always believed that freedom of religion must necessarily include freedom from religion. In the interest of fairness (though I read the Chick comic back in the 80's when it first aired, I think Dragon magazine ran it with some rather negative commentary), I think it's only right to post an off-topic link to something very non-Christian (Language warning, and I REALLY mean it! This site is not intended for anyone with a shred of decency. Best viewed at 2 am.):
http://www.seanbaby.com/stupid/original.htm
It's just for fun people.
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| « Last Edit: on: Jul 10, 2004, 1:21AM » |
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Talondale
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Okay I know this is not the forum for indepth discussions of faith but I just wanted to say the whole "each find his own truth" is so intellectually dishonest (or just lazy). Truth by its definition has to be mutually exlusive. Relativity only works in a convoluted vacuum of abstract "logic". You can argue against that but real life proves it's true.
T
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Mulu
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on Jul 10, 2004, 1:56 AM, Talondale wrote:| Okay I know this is not the forum for indepth discussions of faith but I just wanted to say the whole "each find his own truth" is so intellectually dishonest (or just lazy). Truth by its definition has to be mutually exlusive. |
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Well, of course this is correct. Christianity says after we die we go to either heaven or hell. Buddhism says we are reincarnated. Obviously, they cannot both be right, so which one is? It gets worse when you realize there are thousands of religions throughout human history, all different, all mutually exclusive. Religion is always stated in absolute terms, “it happened THIS WAY.” Not, “we believe it happened this way,” or, “it may have happened this way.” There is only one God, and Allah is his prophet. So, which religion got it right? Maybe the Ancient Greeks, they seemed to get almost everything else right. Zeus must be getting pretty upset by now. Or maybe the Hopi Indians. Maybe Coyote created man, as a joke.
On the other hand, if you are a relativist about it, then if you believe in Christian mythology - resurrection, miracles and such - how can you disbelieve any other mythology? They all have the same validity. If the stories of one religion could have happened, then the stories of all religions could have happened. Therefore, Thor once walked the Earth and killed the Midgard serpent with his hammer. (Cool!) Too bad we didn’t catch it on video. Add to this how people choose their religion. It’s not like people study all known religions, and then say, “this one makes the most sense to me, I’m going to follow the Viking religion.” People by and large do not choose their religious beliefs, they are a product of upbringing. If you are born in a Muslim family, live in an Islamic community, you will be a Muslim. Simple as that. No choice, no decision-making, no analysis, just passive acceptance. If you are a Christian, even a minister, and I could go back in time, kidnap you as a baby, and give you to a Buddhist family, you would grow up to be a Buddhist instead. And according to some preachers, burn in hell as a result....
But hey, those comics man, they are whacked! 
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StarStuff
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on Jul 10, 2004, 3:48 AM, Mulu wrote:| ...It’s not like people study all known religions, and then say, “this one makes the most sense to me... |
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I wouldn't go so far as to say I've studied all known religions (I'd have to have the lifespan of an elf for that, I think!), but I've looked into several, and I have in fact chosen a belief system that "makes the most sense to me" . I speak from personal experience when I say that it is possible to see different religions as fundamentally the same, depending on which of the core teachings from each one you believe to be true - and I don't consider myself to be either deluded, lazy or untruthful.
However, there's so much human interpretation of the divine message hidden at the heart of each faith that the "one true way" aspect comes into play, so the followers of any given religion aren't able to see the truth in the others. Hence people like Chick preaching their distorted worldview with absolute conviction - the poor guy really believes what he says. You have to feel sorry for him, really. I think when he dies he's going to be in for (literally) one hell of a shock!
Anyway, I for one am going to carry on playing D&D/NWN regardless of anyone else's opinion on the state of my immortal soul. Hell, watch out, here I come...
--StarStuff
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J'Dai Voisin
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on Jul 7, 2004, 0:24 AM, Lazybones wrote:Good discussion all, and thanks for keeping it civil. At ENWorld, where I also spend a lot of forum-time, there's a "no religion" rule (and no politics as well!) but I'm glad that we can discuss the relationship between gaming and religion here at NWC without getting into attacks and flames.
*tosses moderator hat into the corner and goes to take a nap* |
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Well, I am keeping my Moderator hat on. I have received a few PMs about this thread and folks are becoming uncomfortable. I will continue to watch this thread and will step in if necessary.
I am not trying to police the thread but I will protect the feelings of my fellow NWC members.
Over and out. - JD
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Mulu
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on Jul 10, 2004, 3:02 PM, StarStuff wrote:on Jul 10, 2004, 3:48 AM, Mulu wrote:| ...It’s not like people study all known religions, and then say, “this one makes the most sense to me... |
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I wouldn't go so far as to say I've studied all known religions (I'd have to have the lifespan of an elf for that, I think!), but I've looked into several, and I have in fact chosen a belief system that "makes the most sense to me" . I speak from personal experience when I say that it is possible to see different religions as fundamentally the same, depending on which of the core teachings from each one you believe to be true - and I don't consider myself to be either deluded, lazy or untruthful. |
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But you do realize you are extremely rare. Most people have the same religion their parents have. And the "official line" of almost all religions is that all other religions are wrong.
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